the_fatal_arrow : knight: i have been totally non-evasive. i said i will provide a definition if you answer these 2 questions: is abiogenesis ordinary or extraordinary? do extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence? you cannot take me up on my challenge because of the inconsistency of atheism. you know it is inconsistent that is why you decline the challenge.
     Alcyonian : I'll do it.
     Alcyonian : Abiogenesis is an hypothesis. There is no substantiation to it, because we lack both testability and observation of the fact. Science is hesitant to answer something that can't be substantiated. And it is an extraordinary claim when you try and conclude it. So, when you make the claim, you have to backup that claim.
     Alcyonian : *a
     Alcyonian : So let's start at the beginning (laughs at her pun). Abiogenesis being the spontaneous generation of life, and/or the origin of living things from inanimate objects.
     Alcyonian : Cock: You move like a snail.
     Alcyonian : Who is?
     Alcyonian : What is the religious proposition for abiogenesis. What evidence cant they provide for the spontaneous generation of life, How can this be observed, and tested. What is the model.
     the_fatal_arrow : knight: taken from a atheist site: abiogenesis is the scientific label for the development of life from non-life via natural means. Now is abiogenesis ordinary or extraordinary? do extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence?
     Alcyonian : *can
     Alcyonian : the_fatal_arrow: I gave you the biological definition of Abiognesis.
     Alcyonian : biology = study of life.
     Alcyonian : So let's start at the beginning (laughs at her pun). Abiogenesis being the spontaneous generation of life, and/or the origin of living things from inanimate objects.
     Alcyonian :
     the_fatal_arrow : knight: RUN away. run away.
     Alcyonian : I can repost everything I have stated about Abiogenesis. And I will.
     Alcyonian : It was an hypothesis that came up constantly in biology.
     Alcyonian : Abiogenesis is an hypothesis. There is no substantiation to it, because we lack both testability and observation of the fact. Science is hesitant to answer something that can't be substantiated. And it is an extraordinary claim when you try and conclude it. So, when you make the claim, you have to backup that claim.
     Alcyonian : So let's start at the beginning (laughs at her pun). Abiogenesis being the spontaneous generation of life, and/or the origin of living things from inanimate objects.
     Alcyonian : What is the religious proposition for abiogenesis. What evidence cant they provide for the spontaneous generation of life, How can this be observed, and tested. What is the model.
     the_fatal_arrow : alcynonian: have any extraordinary evidence for abiogenesis or is atheism inconsistent?
     the_fatal_arrow : larry isley: are you a naturalist?
     Alcyonian : the_fatal_arrow: There is no evidence for abiognesis. What atheistic model claims abiogenesis?
     Alcyonian : *abiogenesis.
     the_fatal_arrow : alcynonian: the atheist who take the stated position of materialism and naturalism
     Alcyonian : Hello?
     Alcyonian : the_fatal_arrow: Now you're begging the question. What atheistic model claims abiogenesis?
     Alcyonian : It's as simple as that. Provide the model, and we'll debate.
     esotericx10 : the_fatal_arrow First lets get q few things straight...atheism is the lack of a belief in deities....abiogenesis is a scientific hypothesis...evolution is bot h a scientific theory AND fact...one has nothing to do wity the other...eliminate abiogenesis and evolution and you would still have atheists
     the_fatal_arrow : alcynonian: may atheist say there are naturalist/materialist
     Alcyonian : the_fatal_arrow: Give me the structure of the model.
     Alcyonian : I'm atheist.
     Alcyonian : Thank you Eso. Nicely put.
     esotericx10 : the_fatal_arrow Base on these facts your argument has NO basis...period
     Alcyonian : Eso: It was a generalisation.
     the_fatal_arrow : alcynonian: many atheist say they are naturalist and materialist. hence they need abiogenesis for their position. plus if they say they are naturalist because of empiricism then they cannot accept abiogenesis as a answer.
     Alcyonian : But I am still waiting for the "model" and the dynamics OF that model.
     Alcyonian : A premise was made. I want that premise substantiated.
     the_fatal_arrow : alcynonian: see post above
     Alcyonian : the_fatal_arrow: "the need abiogenesis". Based on what model?
     Alcyonian : What exactly do these "many atheists" postulate for their model of ABIOGENESIS?
     Alcyonian : *they
     the_fatal_arrow : alcynonian: you are too smart not too see what i am saying
     esotericx10 : the_fatal_arrow and you are too dumb to see what I'm saying
     Alcyonian : the_fatal_arrow: You offered a premise. You are not substantiating it at all. You are wandering off into another area completely. I'm atheist. I'm a qualified dendrologist. I have worked with many atheists that do not even consider the notion of abiogenesis.
     the_fatal_arrow : eso: i did not read your post
     Alcyonian : the_fatal_arrow: You offered up atheism and abiogenesis. I have asked from the beginning for you to supply the atheistic model. Materialism vs Naturalism is not a model.
     Alcyonian : Its a presupposition.
     the_fatal_arrow : alcynonian: if i said i was a materialist i would not spend too much time considering abiogenesis either.
     Alcyonian : the_fatal_arrow: Still, what is the atheistic model?
     esotericx10 : the_fatal_arrow I said that atheism is a lack of belief in deities....that abiogenesis is an scientific hypothesis and that evolution was both a scientific theory and an observed fact....AND that one thing has nothing to do with the other...AND that if you eliminated abiogenesis and evolution you would still have atheists
     Alcyonian : Materialism and Naturalism is to vast to try and allocate it to ONE group.
     Alcyonian : So, again, I ask, what is the atheistic model?
     the_fatal_arrow : alcoynian: there is no atheist model because atheist who are not insane or possessed know their is a God .
     esotericx10 : the_fatal_arrow Consequently as usual your argument is shit
     Alcyonian : the_fatal_arrow: Your comment makes NO sense. Atheist and "know their is a god"
     salient2 : the_fatal_arrow: insults and lies will not win arguments
     Alcyonian : "Atheist" and they should "know there is a god"?
     Alcyonian : What IS atheism?
     the_fatal_arrow : indon: it is not meant as a insult. it is something i know is true.
     Alcyonian : gremlin_net: The proposition being handed out is abiogenesis and the inconsistancies of atheists.
     salient2 : the_fatal_arrow: no you do not you merely insult and lie
     Alcyonian : I have, as an atheist and biologist, asked for that model.
     Alcyonian : I have asked, over and over again.
     Alcyonian : The only inconsistancy I see is the failure to substantiate the original premise.
     Alcyonian : Mr Calvin Klein: Yes I did. Bouchard and Polin?
     esotericx10 : Alcyonian I offered my own premise which dismantled his argument before he uttered one word of it
     the_fatal_arrow : alcynonian: generally speaking atheism is rebellion and something caused by control issues. it is people denying their is a God because they want to do their own thing. The angry strain of atheism was best illustrated by Stalin who was the type to shake his fist at the heavens. This is the most virulent strain and communism which in the majority of cases picked atheism as their official position killed 100 million people in about the last 70 years.
     yaroslavvb2 : Alcyonian: yes, Bouchard and Plomin. My harddrive crashed and I lost those links, could you send them to me?
     Alcyonian : http://library.uchc.edu/bhn/cite/nyt/0512intl.html http://www.wellesley.edu/Chemistry/chem227/nucleicfunction/transcription/sci-gene-intelligence.html http://apollo.iwt.uni-bielefeld.de/~ml_robot/Scifraud-1995/0699.html
     the_fatal_arrow : alcynonian: see post above
     Alcyonian : I perused the others and discarded them. Nothing to do with genetics, merely moralistic religious bullshit.
     yaroslavvb2 : Alcyonian: thanks
     gremlin_net : the_fatal_arrow: that's not even remotely accurate.
     esotericx10 : the_fatal_arrow Stalin is no more representative of atheist than you are representative of most xtians....which means NOT at all
     the_fatal_arrow : larry: communism in the majority of cases picked atheism as official position. got it?
     the_fatal_arrow : larry: is it?
     Alcyonian : the_fatal_arrow: Firstly, religion is cognitive. It is something learnt. Secondly, atheism, is by default, an original stance, there is nothing in the medical proposition of "eros" stating that religion is a prerequisite of the embryo. Thirdly, that has nothing to do with the topic in progress, that of you substantiating your claim. Fourthly, you are over-generalising again.
     gremlin_net : the_fatal_arrow: so? The nazis chose christianity as the official position. Does that make you a nazi?
     esotericx10 : the_fatal_arrow Your ilk uses the argument that atheists are afraid of the consequences of hell..when the real issue is that xtians are afraid that when they die it will be the end of their existence if their religion proves to be false
     the_fatal_arrow : alcynonian: wrong again. God created everything.
     Alcyonian : Pascals Wager is so 19th century.
     gremlin_net : the_fatal_arrow: based on what evidence?
     Alcyonian : the_fatal_arrow: Subjective reasoning now.
     Alcyonian : the_fatal_arrow: Please, the original premise was atheism and abiogenesis. Are you willing to discuss that?
     esotericx10 : the_fatal_arrow Since atheists accept the possibility that there is nothing after this life who has more to lose...?
     the_fatal_arrow : alcynonian: are you a naturalist? and do extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence?
     Alcyonian : the_fatal_arrow: now you are avoiding the question altogether.
     gremlin_net : the_fatal_arrow: not evidence; Strike One.
     Alcyonian : the_fatal_arrow: I am an atheistic pagan. I host no belief in god, but I do not discount that notion that something on a quantum level, is a prominent factor of all that we perceive now.
     Alcyonian : the_fatal_arrow: Now, BACK to the original premise.
     Alcyonian : Can we at least DO that?
     the_fatal_arrow : alcynonian: i guess you and knight cannot address the contradictory nature of your stated position which you know are false.
     gremlin_net : the_fatal_arrow: not evidence; Strike Two.
     Alcyonian : the_fatal_arrow: I can repost where we started and how you have avoided every question I have asked.
     Alcyonian : That being for YOU to substantiate your original claim.
     the_fatal_arrow : alcynonian: smoke and mirrors. something on a quantum level.
     gremlin_net : the_fatal_arrow: not evidence; Strike Three. Here's your shirt: http://troll.grem.tv

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