scotsmanmatt : Jesus was put to death at the instigation of the Jewish religious leaders of the day who several times had plotted and tried to kill him without success
     Iesus_Christus * you assume Matt
     scotsmanmatt : Iesus: yes, I assume the accuracy of the NT
     Iesus_Christus * ...but that goes against historical reality, and conflicts with jewish thought
     scotsmanmatt : Iesus: because that's what we're talking about - the claims of Jesus and his life in the NT
     Iesus_Christus * laughs
     truth_to_be_found : there are no assumptions that can be made - if there isn no evidence and corroboration, then there is nothing to discuss
     scotsmanmatt : truth: eh...we were discussing whether or not the NT teaches Jesus was an observant Jew. To do that requires assuming the NT is not a fable or myth or corrupted etc
     Iesus_Christus * no it doesnt Matt
     Iesus_Christus * prima facie is not the same as critical observation
     scotsmanmatt : Iesus: it does
     Iesus_Christus * sorry Matt. it doesnt
     scotsmanmatt : truth: show me a rabbi who took issue with central issue of the torah and in their own authority taught they should be disgregarded?
     scotsmanmatt : I asked for a rabbi who against central issues in the OT, took upon themselves the authority to change them and declare them void
     scotsmanmatt : and which rabbi brought this about on their own authority?
     scotsmanmatt : truth: no, it's far from proof, indeed it's not even evidence as yet
     Iesus_Christus * the moreh ha zaddik taught that divorce was disallowed - against torah - and quoted Gen 1:26 as scriptural proof.
     truth_to_be_found : who else?
     Iesus_Christus * .....the exact same thing Jesus would do 100 years later.
     Iesus_Christus * so, Jesus didnt teach that from his own authority. By his time it was one of the "Traditions of the fathers"
     scotsmanmatt : Iesus; your supporting references/sources?
     Iesus_Christus * the Temple Scroll
     scotsmanmatt : Iesus: be more specific
     Iesus_Christus * i was specific
     scotsmanmatt : Iesus: not for me you weren't
     scotsmanmatt : truth: fine, we'll leave it there
     Iesus_Christus * but you dont get to make a special plea for yourself Matt. I have a specific instance as requtested per a "rabbi" teaching a "law" that went against Torah, how it exactly parallels Jesus and gave reference to the text in which it can be found
     scotsmanmatt : Iesus: your claim needs to be validated and for that I need specific sources
     Iesus_Christus * Matt, i gave the specific source
     scotsmanmatt : not specific enough
     truth_to_be_found : would it matter if they were turquoise?
     Iesus_Christus * its not Matt? well then you can name me another Temple Scroll then
     scotsmanmatt : but ill try and work with what you said
     scotsmanmatt : brb
     scotsmanmatt *

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