Posted by Hunter [12.211.199.55 - 12-211-199-55.client.attbi.com] on 28 April 2003 at 14.10.20 ZuluTime:

In Reply to: Update posted by Gremlin on 27 April 2003 at 22.28.03 ZuluTime:

--- In atheistvschristian@yahoogroups.com, philip gyle wrote:

Apparently I am a terrorist, according to gremlin_net it is a federal crime to tell someone to repent or go to hell.
     Have you ever heard such nonsense in all your life?

I'm going to stop right here, and get past the bombastic nada-elipsis...
     Let's get a few words out of the way first, because it's obvious that you might not understand them, even though you repeat them.

Terrorist. Noun.
     One that engages in acts or an act of terrorism.

That, I'm sure, fails to clear things up for you, so:

Terrorism Noun.
     The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Also:

Terrorism Noun [Cf. F. terrorisme.] The act of terrorizing, or state of being terrorized; a mode of government by terror or intimidation. -- Jefferson.

That first one's pretty cut and dry, but the second one falls back on another form of 'terror', so I'd better define that for you too....

Terrorize. Verb.
     1: coerce by violence or with threats 2: fill with terror; frighten greatly

Now, I hope we understand that. Let's walk through it one more time. In simplest terms, a terrorist is one who coerces by violence, or with threats. In simple, loose, cut down terms.
     Let's run with that for now.
     What's next? Ah yes, "federal crime". That's easy. Here's the law referenced:

Sec. 875. - Interstate communications

(a) Whoever transmits in interstate or foreign commerce any communication containing any demand or request for a ransom or reward for the release of any kidnapped person, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

(b) Whoever, with intent to extort from any person, firm, association, or corporation, any money or other thing of value, transmits in interstate or foreign commerce any communication containing any threat to kidnap any person or any threat to injure the person of another, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

(c) Whoever transmits in interstate or foreign commerce any communication containing any threat to kidnap any person or any threat to injure the person of another, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

(d) Whoever, with intent to extort from any person, firm, association, or corporation, any money or other thing of value, transmits in interstate or foreign commerce any communication containing any threat to injure the property or reputation of the addressee or of another or the reputation of a deceased person or any threat to accuse the addressee or any other person of a crime, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both

Ooh. That's just a teensy bit complex, isn't it?
     We're not dealing with kidnapping here. Or well, by your logic, we may well be -- the soul being in posession of satan and you lobbying for its release with offers of eternal life and all, but that's dancing a little close to stretching things...
     So (a) is out. That simplifies things.
     (b) doesn't have much to do with it, due to the use of 'extort', even though, by attempting to 'win the soul' for god, you're attempting to obtain something that you value. But that's likely not 'extortion'.
     (d) probably doesn't have anything to do with this either.
     That leaves us with: (c) Whoever transmits in interstate or foreign commerce any communication containing any threat to kidnap any person or any threat to injure the person of another, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

I even highlighted the important bits for you. Thought it might help you pay attention to them....

There's those pesky words again. Lemme help you with those.
     Some of the easier ones first: Interstate -- between states. From one state to another.
     Foreign - not domestic. Not within the US. Like, say, Belfast.

Now for the harder ones:

Threat. Noun.
     An expression of an intention to inflict pain, injury, evil, or punishment.
     An indication of impending danger or harm.
     One that is regarded as a possible danger; a menace.

And, just because it's going to be useful, I'd best define "injure" and "harm"....

Injure. Transitive verb.
     To cause physical harm to; hurt.
     To cause damage to; impair.
     To cause distress to; wound: injured their feelings.
     To commit an injustice or offense against; wrong.

Harm. Noun.
     Physical or psychological injury or damage.
     Wrong; evil.

So, taking what we know so far: Whoever transmits [sends] any communication containing any expression of an intention to inflict pain, injury, evil, or punishment, any indication of impending danger or harm [in many instances - bomb threats are a good example], shall be fined, sentenced, or both.

Hmm. Interesting.

And what's the phrase? "repent or perish?" That's "repent or [you will, implied] perish", right? "repent or you will perish] Perish meaning die. That sounds like a threat.
     Oh, "repent or go to hell".
     So: "repent or you will go to hell"

Well then, what's hell?
     Lemme go look that up.
     Ah. Here. Quotes taken from http://www.av1611.org/hell.html
     :

Luke 16:22 . . . the rich man also died, and was buried;
     16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
     16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
     16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
     16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
     16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
     16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

Caspar Peucer, a famous fourteenth century astronomer and physician, who also researched and documented the volcanoe eruptions at Heklafell wrote some very frightening information in his research findings. Peucer, claims (as others) that "fearful howlings, weeping and gnashing of teeth" could be heard "for many miles. . ." as these volcanoes erupted:
     "Out of the bottomless abyss of Heklafell, or rather out of Hell itself, rise melancholy cries and loud wailings, so that these can be heard for many miles around. . . there may be heard in the mountain fearful howlings, weeping and gnashing of teeth."
     (Haraldur Sigurdsson, Melting the Earth, The History of Ideas on Volcanic Eruptions, p. 73) And Caspar Peucer is not alone. There are others who believe they have heard "cries and screaming" coming from volcanoes. Most have tried to ignore the obvious. Some simply explain the "sounds of hell" to some rational meaning. But they are there. . .
     "The fearsome noises that issued from some of their volcanoes were certainly thought to be the screams of tormented souls in the fires of hell below".

everlasting fire — Matthew18:8, 25:41
     everlasting punishment — Matthew 25:46
     everlasting chains — Jude 1:6
     eternal damnation — Mark 3:29
     eternal judgment — Hebrews 6:2
     eternal fire — Jude 1:7
     unquenchable fire — Matthew 3:12
     the fire that never shall be quenched — Mark 9:43, 44, 45, 46, 48
     fire unquenchable — Luke 3:17
     mist of darkness is reserved for ever — 2 Peter 2:17
     the blackness of darkness for ever — Jude 1:13

Jesus says in Matthew 25:41: ". . . Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING fire, . . ."

Rev. 14:11: "The smoke of their TORMENT ascendeth up for EVER AND EVER: and they have NO REST DAY NOR NIGHT."

"fire" Matt 7:19, 13:40, 25:41
     "everlasting fire" Matt 18:8, 25:41
     "eternal damnation" Mark 3:29
     "hell fire" Matt 5:22, 18:9, Mark 9:47
     "damnation" Matt 23:14, Mark 12:40, Luke 20:47
     "damnation of hell" Matt 23:33
     "resurrection of damnation" John 5:29
     "furnace of fire" Matt 13:42, 50
     "the fire that never shall be quenched" Mark 9:43, 45
     "the fire is not quenched" Mark 9:44, 46, 48
     "Where their worm dieth not" Mark 9:44, 46, 48
     "wailing and gnashing of teeth" Matt 13:42, 50
     "weeping and gnashing of teeth" Matt 8:12, 22:13, 25:30
     "torments" Luke 16:23
     "tormented in this flame" Luke 16:24
     "place of torment" Luke 16:28
     "outer darkness" Matt 8:12, 22:13
     "everlasting punishment" Matt 25:46

As you leave your body — you realize something is happening. You hear a sound. . . getting louder and louder. . . screaming . . .weeping. . . wailing. Terror and fear beyond anything you could imagine overtakes you. "This can’t be happening!" you scream. Your nostrils are filling with the awful stench of burning souls. Your face ignites from the heat. Flames are now blazing from your eyes, nostrils, ears, mouth — every opening in your body, flames are roaring out. Your body is sizzling and crackling from the flames.
     Your body is now madly thrashing and convulsing from the horrible pain. "Why don’t I die?", you scream. You begin weeping and gnashing your teeth with the millions. "When will this pain stop?" But you know it will never stop. . .
     The darkness is so terrifying, it begins engulfing you. You feel something moving in the darkness. . . something horrible is happening. "No! No! This can’t be happening" you scream — as your worm is emerging.
     You begin cursing the day you were born. You scream — "Oh God, why didn’t you warn me?"— but you remember the preacher pleading with you to receive Jesus Christ. You remember reading that gospel tract. You cry — "God don’t you care?" — but you remember John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,. . ." "God is a God of love — He won't allow this", you cry — but you remember John 3:36, ". . . he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."
     And you soon realize, that Jesus Christ was right!
     There is a place called hell.
     AND YOU ARE THERE — FOREVER!

Oh my....
     Sounds like an awful lot of pain. In fact, it sounds like a great deal of physical and psychological torture.
     How...awful. How incredibly horrid.
     Yes, indeed, all these quotes make hell sound like a place where a great deal of physical and psychological damage is caused.
     Wait: what did I just say? Physical and psychological...damage? That's...familiar.
     Why, that's HARM!
     What was that earlier? Whoever threaten's harm?
     Why, "repent or [you will] go to hell" can be interpreted as a threat of HARM!
     WOW! THAT'S AMAZING! Isn't that amazing?

Fuck it: you're a fucking idiot, and I can't do this anymore; I'll get to the rest of this later, when I don't feel like this is a waste of time....

~Hunter