Posted by Hunter [12.211.202.152 - 12-211-202-152.client.attbi.com] on 01 June 2003 at 11.48.00 ZuluTime:

In Reply to: Re: Back to being a Christian again? -nt- posted by Seraphina22 on 31 May 2003 at 22.29.44 ZuluTime:

I suppose that question is in reference to the Bible verse I posted? If so, I'm sure you realize that it was from the Old Testament, because I'm confident that a knowledgeable chick like you would recognize something that obvious.

It's also in the big Top Ten Quotes Christians Use. Right there with "For god so loved the world" and the tend commandments in exclusion of all the other laws listed in the other three 'books'....

If not, then please be more specific. If you people had payed more attention to what I was saying and spent less time trying to make me look like an idiot, you would remember that even though I don't profess to be a "Christian," I'm not yet ready to fully discredit Christianity either.

Of course you're not a Christian. You only act like one [classically, a hypocrite], use the same quotes, the same arguments [seraphina22 : I can no more prove to you that Jesus..the man..existed than I can prove to you that Caesar did. But you don't question that, do you?], and, in reference to a discussion about the reality of christianity: "seraphina22 : You should give it a try though. Real or not..it feels GREAT."

It quacks like a duck, and shits like a duck. It's a fuckin' mongoose....

You know, you and I aren't all that different in our ways of thinking.

You think?

You've considered the options and weighed the evidence, or lack thereof, and you've made your conclusions. I'm still considering the options. The fact is, I have a great deal of respect for most religions. It just so happens that I know more about Christianity than any of the others.

So, judging by what you know about Christianity, you don't know much about the others. Hit the books....

Might I recommend sacred-texts.com?

We all have to make choices in our lives based on our own personal experiences, values, yadda, yadda, yadda.

And here comes the "I once was" argument variant....

At one time in my life, I would have been very judgemental towards people with your beliefs. In fact, at one time in my life, I was very judgemental towards ALOT of people. But I have since then been brought down and forced to become humble. I have done things that I swore I'd never do, including most everything I've ever criticized others for. In essence, I have become the object of my every contempt, including, at one point, an atheist. Now the most recent example of this came 2 weeks ago when I decided that I wanted to kill myself. (I know, I know, poor, pitiful me..) This came after a year long spiritual drought, where I had abandoned all hope that there was a "God" and had ceased trying to pray or believe.

Oh wow, THIS "I once was" argument. The "I was once one of those bad awful people you think I am now, but then I lost faith and almost died and God SAAAAAAAAAAVED MEEEEE!

I tried various other things to fill the emptiness I felt as a result of the loss of the faith that made me whole. Nothing could quite do the trick. So, it happened as I planned my impending death, that I was overcome with the idea that I should give it one more try before I gave up. I began to pray again, and I prayed fervently for "God" to show His presence and "save" me from myself. I won't go into the details that would undoubtedly be attributed to an episode of lobal epilepsy anyway, but I believe that He did that.

Of course you wouldn't want to go into details that could be explained by a desperate longing for someone to save you mixed with a malformed connexion between the two lobes of your brain. You could never accept that; you're physically incapable of accepting it, because you feel you have to interpret everything emotionally instead of logically.

Now if this belief makes me weak, then so be it. I'm alive. If it takes this lobal epilepsy syndrome to give me hope and motivate me to keep pressing on, then so be it. Keep those episodes coming.

It doesn't make you weak; it makes you willfully ignorant. It's the physical problem that makes you weak. Hopefully, this same malformation won't be passed on to your larvae.

The bottom line is, despite what each of us thinks we know, despite what we have been able to prove, disprove, can't prove, don't want to prove, etc...The truth is that none of us knows for sure that what we believe is real or true.

Good thing I deal in facts; that makes you wrong. Try to follow along. A fact is something that's been proven. A 'truth' isn't a fact. A 'truth' is a personal perspective on something. The 'true story' about a car accident as told by a witness is a little different from the 'facts' of the car accident as shown by the evidence at the scene. You may not have seen the guy put on his brakes, and assume that he may have in fact 'sped up', but the presence of a patch of ice, or the failing of the person's brakes are two things that you could not have known. You would not, therefore, know the facts of the accident.

Now, understanding the difference between 'truths', and your personal little 'truth' there, and 'facts' -- one who runs on facts KNOWS the difference between fiction and factual reality. One who runs on emotions, and 'truth' and 'beliefs' simply assumes that everyone else does, as well, and twaddles on endlessly about how nobody can possibly know what's real or not. If that's true, then cells don't reproduce through mitosis. Which is it?

I think that's something we can all agree on. And despite the steel and resolve that most of us appear to possess, I believe that deep within all of us is a fear that maybe, just maybe, what we believe is wrong.

Looks like you were wrong. Ooh, and wrong again. Keep runnin' with those beliefs; maybe you'll break your record soon....

But anyway. I guess I've rambled on long enough. I'm sure those of you reading this will totally discredit all of it by asserting that I'm a fraud or that it's a "Strawman" or that I'm a "LARPing" troll. (Pardon me if I misuse any of the terms, it's all new to me.) And well, that's fine too.

Discrediting happens by way of the application of reality, not by application of your pathetic misunderstanding of debate terms, and the lumping together of them with other things you lack understanding of....

I have nothing to gain or lose through your opinion of me, because in spite of my lack of certainty in just who or what this "God" that I so desperately want to exist really is, I'm almost 100% certain that it's not you. Cheers.

And wouldn't you just hate it if you were wrong again....

Cthulhu fhtagn.