| 05 July 2003 at 05.05.59 ZuluTime
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Posted by Hunter [12.211.202.152 - 12-211-202-152.client.attbi.com] on 05 July 2003 at 05.05.59 ZuluTime:
horselessryder : ok i think i could proove that God exists
horselessryder : im up for the challenge
horselessryder : im gonna be cutting and pasting from a paper i wrote in college
horselessryder : so im not gonna respond till after im done
horselessryder : ok here we go
horselessryder : The question of the existence of God yields only problematic proofs and answers.
horselessryder : The infinite aspect of God's own definition always leaves knowledge seeking minds with more unanswered questions.
horselessryder : On his deathbed, Thomas Aquinas admitted that all his work to explain God could be equivalent to that of "straw," meaning there is no complete or concrete answer defining God and His works.
horselessryder : For theists, these lack of answers are consoled by ones faith.
horselessryder : For atheists these lack of answers define their argument for God's non-existence. Here in lies my own theory.
horselessryder : The question of God's existence is presumably a "yes or no" answer.
horselessryder : Yes, God does exists says theists. No, God doesn't exist says atheists.
horselessryder : Therefore, since God is infinite; our proof of His existence will always be finite for our proof can only be perceived by that which is finite, in our case, human beings.
horselessryder : This is why one will never find a "complete" answer in explaining God.
horselessryder : But what if solving this "yes or no" question can be answered by disproving one side.
horselessryder : In other words, I cannot fully prove "yes" but I can fully disprove "no." Yes cannot exist with out no and if one is eliminated, then all that will remain is the opposite. In this case, if it's not one, it's the other.
horselessryder : Let me first state that it is not my intention to take atheist beliefs out of context or to explain their side of the story with any sort of bias.
horselessryder : The following information I took from "popular" atheist web sites, so I will make the mistake of assuming that this is the consensus of popular atheistic belief.
horselessryder : First off, what is an atheist?
horselessryder : An atheist is quite simply someone who does not believe in the existence of God/Gods or anything supernatural for that matter.
horselessryder : They believe (or disbelieve) that we do not have a soul that survives the death of the body so essentially everything is comprised of matter.
horselessryder : Ideas such as moral codes and meanings in life seem to vary and are not genuinely consistent.
horselessryder : Some hold a Nihilistic point of view that claims there is no reason for anyone to behave morally and everyone should take what they can when they can.
horselessryder : Some perhaps few maintain a viewpoint similar to that of Lucretius, a Roman philosopher, who criticized pursuits of physical pleasure and instead encouraged a simple way of life as to achieve "serenity."
horselessryder : These are perhaps the two extreme views of atheism but atheists do share a common pragmatic viewpoint of reality in that they all consider themselves "free thinkers."
horselessryder : The following are quotes (1,2) taken from a web page concerning how atheists find "meaning" in life.
horselessryder : (1)"Many atheists live a purposeful life. They decide what they think gives meaning to life, and they pursue those goals. They try to make their lives count, not by wishing for eternal life, but by having an influence on other people who will live on. For example, an atheist may dedicate his life to political reform, in the hope of leaving his mark on history." (internet text)
horselessryder : This person then goes on to say (2)"It is a natural human tendency to look for "meaning" or "purpose" in random events. However, it is by no means obvious that "life" is the sort of thing that has a "meaning"." (internet text)
horselessryder : I find nothing but contradiction in quotes (1) and (2). The first quote says, "live a purposeful life" and "meaning to life."
horselessryder : Then the second turns around and says, "it is by no means obvious that "life" is the sort of thing that has a "meaning"." To clarify, quote (1) describes finding meaning and purpose in ones life and quote (2) says life does not have a meaning, which is inconsistent.
horselessryder : Now it is said that just because something is true for "the parts"(an individual's life) does not mean it is necessarily true for "the whole,"(life in general) but I don't think that fallacy necessarily applies here.
horselessryder : I think this person has unknowingly pointed out a very probable explanation to the meaning of life and that is, the meaning of life can be to find meaning in life.
horselessryder : Isn't this essentially what everyone ends up doing anyway in life? This is simple but consistent, for finding "meaning" in life is something atheists and theists all do alike. Such becomes the meaning if there is no meaning at all.
horselessryder : This next quote clarifies atheist beliefs on morality.
horselessryder : "If you mean "Does atheism have a characteristic moral code?" then the answer is no. Atheism by itself does not imply anything much about how a person will behave. Most atheists follow many of the same "moral rules" as theists, but for different reasons. Atheists view morality as something created by humans, according to the way humans feel the world 'ought' to work, rather than seeing it as a set of rules decreed by a supernatural being." (internet text)
horselessryder : So atheists follow the same moral codes as theists. Atheists would say, "No we made up these codes ourselves."
horselessryder : Theist would say, "God gave us these codes to live by."
horselessryder : The question is who is leading whom here? Through out history the majority of mankind (population and government) has always been theist so whether they like it or not atheists have been following theist codes this whole time, which in turn, were apparently sent from God.
horselessryder : Ironically, Atheists follow these codes only because they seem to make sense for some reason.
horselessryder : What makes an atheist happy?
horselessryder : Life doesn't seem to have as much worth if one is not happy and content. What gives them comfort? Once again I apologize if this is not how all atheists feel.
horselessryder : When asked the question, ""So how do atheists find comfort in time of danger?" the response was, "There are many ways of obtaining comfort: Your family and friends, Pets, Food and drink, Music, television, literature, arts and entertainment, Sports or exercise, Meditation, Psychotherapy, Drugs, Work." (internet
horselessryder : This is saddening because according to this, this person will never truly be happy for all their "comforts" and sources of happiness are dependant on external things that will never last (meditation being the exception).
horselessryder : As Aristotle put it there are three ways to obtain happiness. 1) Pleasure. 2) Honor, respect. 3) Virtue. Pleasure and respect are two things dependant on other factors.
horselessryder : Virtue is dependent on nothing therefore brings the most fulfilling happiness. Most of these "comforts" rest in commodities that won't last long so this person may most likely suffer from periods of unhappiness where they are just waiting for the next finite thing to come along and satisfy them.
horselessryder : Are atheists then less likely to be happier than theists?
horselessryder : ok ill stop
horselessryder : thank God!
horselessryder : is there anybody who didnt ignore me?