Posted by MondoHebe [198.81.26.45 - cache-ntc-ab08.proxy.aol.com] on 17 June 2004 at 23.51.51 ZuluTime:

An old teacher of mine delights in sending me leftwing propaganda. I think my replies oughta get SOMEBODY going. All answers are Gremlin style.

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1. Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy. Providing health
     care to all Americans is socialism

Well! No discrepancy in logic here. Giving the most basic rudiments of essential care to a people with LITERALLY no care after 30 years of systematic abuse, as opposed to making even elective surgery a tax burden. Billary completely screwed National Health Care in their utter mishandling of it from 93-94. It's certainly an idea whose time may have come and is worth discussion, but because of the political incompetence of the prior administration, it's gonna be at least 20 years before someone dares to look at it again. We can thank Billary to adding yet another crucial topic to the fabled "third rail" of American politics.
     

     2. Global warming and tobacco's link to cancer are junk science, but
     creationism should be taught in schools.

     Every surgeon general since Ike has advocated teaching complete sex ed and legalizing drugs, but each administration has shot them down, due to political reality of a lack of voter support. Pursuing THIS argument is like condemning Jefferson as worthless because he did nothing to end slavery. You don't get to pick and choose. And as long as we're at it, quality scientific procedures have made it pretty clear that we still have no real clue about global warming, and that SECOND HAND smoke is pretty bloody harmless. You don't get to CHOOSE what you want to believe scientifically. You accept what legitimate science teaches as true, whether it falls into your philosophy or not, and you accept that there are many areas where scientists are either wrong or do not yet know. To castigate creationists (who bloody well deserve it) for their idiotic adherence to fairy tales in one breath and then demonstrate your own for BS science beliefs is the HEIGHT of hypocrisy. Apparently Galileo must still utter 'Eppur Si Muove" to the modern Inquisition.
     

     3. It is okay that the Bush family's Carlisle Group has done millions of
     business with the Bin Laden family.

Shall I list the shady deals of MANY presidential families dating back to Credit Mobiler? How about just saying “Joseph Kennedy”, and leaving the topic alone? And just how much blame are we gonna slap a President with for what his FAMILY does? Hmmmm… Ted Kennedy, Billy Carter, Amy Carter, Roger Clinton. Yeah, Democrats OWN ethics. Just ask Dan Rostenkowski or Henry Waxman. Hello Pot, I’m Kettle.

     4. Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him and Rumsfeld reassured him he was our buddy, a bad guy when Bush's daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him, but then a bad guy again when Bush junior needed a prop for his re-election campaign as the war President.

It is the nature of Realpolitik to do business with lousy people if you have to, and whether you HAVE to is the province of historians. What’s the difference between helping scum like Saddam Hussein against the Ayatollah (who took Americans captive largely because Democrat Jimmy Carter was supporting the Shah and his horribly repressive police) and FDR helping JOSEF STALIN against Hitler? Get off your cross, someone could use the wood.

     5. A president lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable offense.
     A president lying about WMD existence to enlist support for an unprovoked,
     undeclared war and occupation, in which thousands soldiers and civilians die,
     is, somehow, solid defense policy in a War against Terrorism.

Well, where to begin? An ‘undeclared’ war? Like Vietnam and Korea, both of which Democrats landed us in? Both of which cost about FIFTY THOUSAND AMERICAN LIVES??? Can someone please name a formally declared war anywhere on the planet since WWII? Declared wars no longer exist, they are quaint piece of the past, much like slavery and women not voting. Bush took it to Congress, which in the eyes of modern federal courts satisfies the Constitutional requirements. Try not to pick and choose.

Clinton’s knobshine is undoubtedly a lesser deal than false provocation for war, but Clinton deliberately and admittedly LIED and obstructed justice in the subsequent (and stupid) investigation. Bush appears to have been misled by the fairly incompetent intelligence services of two western nations. But you’re right, there was no justification. It’s not like Saddam Hussein had a proven history of seeking to obtain WMD, or of using them on helpless civilians, or of invading neighbors. The guy was a real prince. We finally nailed Al Capone after 20 years of murder and racketeering for TAX FRAUD. You get these people anyway you can. I wouldn’t have cared if the reason was wearing white after Labor Day. If this smug, self-righteous attitude wasn’t always so popular among people who are safely away from the killing, 12 million people would not have died in Hitler’s camps, 3 million would not have died in Cambodia, God knows how many would not have died in Rwanda. Besides, the inevitable effect of this idiocy is isolationism, which was the dominant REPUBLICAN position of folks like Robert Taft more than 50 years ago. Do the liberals really want to take us back to THOSE glory days?

     6. Government should limit itself to the powers named in the Constitution,
     which should include banning gay marriages and censoring the Internet.

You mean someone might try to subvert that document for their own political ends? Say it ain’t so! Like using the commerce clause to further civil rights? Like ignoring the first amendment in enacting hate laws or censoring hate groups? Like ignoring double jeopardy when we nail people on civil violations when we can’t get them on criminal charges, or charging them both federally and in state courts when we REALLY want to nail them for something? Like dumping the provisions of the second amendment because we really don’t like that one?

Politicians of every stripe have tried to ban forms of the written and spoken word since before we were a republic. IT NEVER WORKS! Are you really worried about the Internet? It would be like trying to stop the wind. Devote your energies to fighting causes that actually NEED your support, this one doesn’t. And just what is wrong with a president reacting to his supporter’s wishes, even when controversial, and taking a stand on amending the constitution? Many people think an amendment banning gay marriage is unneeded or wrong, but those opinions were also voiced about freeing slaves, prohibition, letting 18 year olds vote, congressional pay raises, and a host of other ideas. The nation’s opinions change over time. That should be reflected in the document that governs us. If the majority of people want something long enough, they tend to get it. What a horror it is to have a president that actually takes stands and has opinions! Clinton could have opened a Waffle House! If you think gays should have marriage rights, then work to convince people of your point of view and get them those legal rights. If you don’t think so, then work the other way. It’s called a free-debate democracy. It’s supposed to be contentious and messy.

     7. The public has a right to know about Hillary's cattle trades, but George
     Bush's Harken Oil stock trade should be sealed in his Daddy's library, and is
     none of our business.

Ah, the invocation of Executive Privilege. No other president has abused that before (hello Clinton and Nixon!) While I agree that that financial dealing of Presidents ethically ought to be laid bare for the sake of appearance if for no other reason, the vulture-like press in this country rarely has any problem finding this stuff. If Bush done messed up, I have no doubt the press will be over-sensationalizing it soon enough.

By the way, Hillary WASN’T President!!!! Bush IS! Presidents have needed legal protections that private citizens don’t, and I could really care less if that carpetbagger is held to account when she hold no office. As soon as Bush is no longer President and slightly busy, then investigate him, lock him up, have him shot, but let him do his job for the moment. Can I point out the obvious problem that when one party tries to neuter the presidency when they are not in office, the other party returns the favor when the tables are turned? Watergate = Whitewater, Archibald Cox = Kenneth Starr. Gee, what productive fun!

     8. What Bill Clinton or John Kerry did in the 1960s was of vital national
     interest but what Bush did in the 80's is irrelevant.

No, none of it is vital to the national interest. It has all been overblown sensationalist crap. However, I do personally find a difference between a directionless adolescent twit and someone who publicly protests against his own country while on foreign soil. In any event, step back for a minute. Neither Bush or Kerry are mightily impressive on their own merits, they were the candidates thrown up by their parties for being electable. I haven’t met a Democrat yet who is excited about Kerry, they were excited about DEAN. Then he self-destructed. Conservatives voted for Bush in 2000 not because he was BUSH, but because he was the GOP candidate and wasn’t Clinton. Democrats are not rallying around the charisma-less Kerry, they are voting their platform of ideas of any Democratic standard-bearer, and because they hate Bush. In either case, the CANDIDATE is irrelevant to about 80% of the voters.

     9. Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with
     China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.

Such has been the think of every administration since Kennedy. To castigate that wrong-headedness only when the other side is in the White House is transparent and pathetic.

     10. Affirmative Action is wrong, but it is OK for your Daddy and his friends
     (here and in Saudi Arabia) to get you to graduate from Yale without studying
     much, to bail out your companies (Harken Oil and the Texas Rangers), and to get the Governorship of Texas.

Yeah, it is. Why? Doesn’t cost the taxpayer anything. Would the author of this note like to list all the help they have either gotten or given to family and friends? Also, I’m sure the voters in Texas who individually voted for Bush might be a tad offended at your charge that they had nothing to do with it. You really want to examine the corrupt history of fathers buying elections? Oh, gee, that’s a toughie, and it is such a completely REPUBLICAN offense… Joe Kennedy, Mayor Daley, and the freaking MAFIA!

     11. You are a conservative, but it is OK to spend like there is no tomorrow
     and run up deficits that your grandchildren will have to pay, while at the same
     refunding as much tax money as possible to rich people who do not need it.

Lectures on fiscal responsibility from the American Left? What’s next, vows of fidelity in the French marriage service? Fine, mea culpa. However, it is easily argued that Reagan’s soaring deficits and tax cuts led to the collapse of communism and a military that was actually capable of accomplishing something, while the welfare state of Johnson has been a failure. And since it would take PAGES to go into detail on that final non sequiter, let me just state without defense (as the author did) that it is wrong to tell someone that the money they have earned is not theirs because in someone else’s opinion, they do “not need it.”

I’m pretty sick and tired of people who pass political opinions off as fact without either identifying or qualifying them. The quasi-socialist tenets of this author are NOT ironclad facts, and are much in dispute with many thinkers. To present them as unquestioned and obvious gospel is foolish and arrogant.

     12. Jesus loves you, but shares your deep hatred of homosexuals and Hillary
     Clinton.

If you are going to hold the entire Right responsible for the quotes of the Aryan nations, can I hold the Left responsible for PETA?

     13. The United States should get out of the United Nations, but our highest
     national priority is enforcing UN resolutions against Iraq.

Realpolitik again. You gotta do what you gotta do. The UN has been halfway decent at such things as UNICEF, but that’s about it. In enforcing international law or ending oppression or genocide, even Garry Trudeau has admitted they are a joke. I can only assume (please note the admission of opinion) some people love the UN because of what it potentially could be. As it is, however, it’s a failure. Taking an issue to the UN is a nightmare. Kennedy only got the embargo through because the Russians were throwing a tantrum and weren’t there that day. The UN is a forum for national interest, and international hatred. I think the only reason anyone even bothers with it is because the League of Nations failed so badly, and so folks care about appearances. If Geopolitics were the “Godfather,” the UN would be Fredo.

     14. Standing Tall for America means firing your workers and moving their jobs
     to India.

Check your sneakers and see if they were made in the US. Wanna count the congressional members from both sides of the aisle with illegal nannies? Protectionist economic practices DON’T WORK. To hell with your personal ethics, Chuckie, they DON’T WORK! They are as futile as the drug war or censoring the Internet. Say, didn’t somebody just recently claim THAT was stupid…?

     15. A woman cannot be trusted with decisions about her own body, but
     multinational corporations can make decisions affecting all humankind without
     regulation.

If I could require any one class to be a requirement for graduation, it would be logic. All cats have four legs. My dog has four legs. Therefore, my dog is a cat. The refutation and rejection of this transparent garbage could go on forever, but its been done. Let me just say that most of the ideas people have about multinational companies are ignorant and flat-out wrong. If somebody reading this doesn’t mind a little simple research (which is completely anathema to political rhetoric, I know), please check out this short book – “The Company: A Short History of a Revolutionary Idea” by Micklethwaite and Wooldridge, (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0679642498/qid=1087511357/sr=ka-2/ref=pd_ka_2/102-6183240-8116918 ) which traces the history of companies and their practices in general. You will soon discover that it is about as wrong and stupid to simplistically blame multinationals as it is to blame illegal immigrants. More and more, it seems to me that the left AND the right are identical, they only have different buzzwords.

     16. Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a
     conservative radio host. Then it's an illness and you need our prayers for your
     recovery.

So, Rush Limbaugh is the entire conservative movement? Deflate him and you’ve debunked the entire philosophy of the Right? Can I ignore the Left after debunking PETA or the G-8 protestors? Here’s my one-liner, suitable for a bumpersticker: “If you can fit your opinions ON a bumpersticker, you’re too stupid to vote”

     17. The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in
     speeches, while slashing veterans benefits and combat pay.

Doesn’t matter how many times this one is disproved, it keeps coming back. Ok, Clinton was a rapist, Vince Foster was murdered, area 51 is real, and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion (http://www.holocaust-history.org/short-essays/protocols.shtml ) are true.

     18. Group sex and drug use are degenerate sins, unless you someday run
     for governor of California as a Republican.

Anyone else notice a theme, here? You know, I once caught a 7 year old in the back yard ripping up a tree. When questioned, her FIRST thought was to rat out another small child, saying, “HE was doing it, too!”

So, if I get this right, anything wrong is excusable, if others are also doing it, and even the possibility of growth, remorse or rehabilitation should be ignored, provided the person in question is a political enemy. Ain’t Democracy great? Maybe we should ask the king if he wants his job back, since it seems we CAN’T govern ourselves.

     19. If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won’t have sex.

You’re right. This has always been a stupid argument. And damn Bush for thinking of it! Also, damn him for trying to represent the views of people who voted for him!

     20. A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our long-time allies, but
     then demand their cooperation and money.

Allies? The French? No, I’m not going to devolve this into a simpleminded bashing of a politically expedient, cowardly, and stupid government that deserves it, let me just remind any reader that PRIOR to the American adventures in Afghanistan or Iraq, or even 9/11, the FRENCH pulled exactly what you’re complaining about in the Ivory Coast, with no outcry from you.

At least many other European nations who legitimately disagree with us work for a common good. The French work solely for the French. They have by far the worst colonial record. They are not and have not been egalitarians or international ambassadors of goodwill, and most of the French thinkers and artists so beloved of the American Left have been unabashedly critical of their own governmental practices for the last 800 years. Study French history, folks, and discover the epitome of all the ills you castigate America for. They couldn’t even foment a democracy without a horrific and bloody Reign of Terror and the emergence of a dictator. The Dreyfuss Affair was barely 100 years ago, and De Gaulle tried to enforce brutal repressive colonial practices until the 1960s.

Maybe that’s why it was so easy for us to cozy up to Saddam Hussein. We have a lot of practice getting into bed with scum.

     21. HMOs and insurance companies make huge profits and have the interest of
     the public at heart.

I could just recall my previous comments on lousy American Health Care and let it go, but let me go a little further – National Health Care in Britain, Scandinavia and Canada is not working out too well. It’s not a total bust, but it also isn’t the shining paragon it’s been made out to be. It’s time to take a good long look at the idea, but the botched job of Billary in the early 90s guarantees that the topic won’t be seriously entertained again for a very long time. I don’t know if it would work, but I would like to hear intelligent debate about it, not mindless slogans. Thanks to the incompetence (in THIS case) of the Democrats, it isn’t going to come up again anytime soon.

     Some Personal notes. This entire list was offensive, illogical, and cowardly, because nobody claimed authorship or justified their opinions. The responses were written by Andrew Altman in Aurora, Colorado, and I put my name on my work. I support the Libertarian Party, seeing deep flaws in both Left and Right, although I personally believe the Left is much more willing to have mainstream supporters LIE and bend the truth to support their goals. I have a BA in History, am 3 months from completing a Masters in Education, and I used to teach American History and Civics. I would ask people to think harder in forming their opinions, do outside research, and demonstrate willingness to adjust or alter cherished opinions if they do not stand up to scrutiny. I could easily lambaste certain rightwing ideas, but they somehow didn’t make this list

I am not a rubberstamp supporter of Bush, or his policies. I think little of his domestic policies, but I ardently supported this war. When menaces like Saddam Hussein CAN be eradicated, they should be. The cost in lives (sounds callous, but that’s what war is) has been shockingly low. I find the claims that we had no cause to do this NOW to be analogous to people saying we should not hunt down or prosecute murderers if their crimes are 20 years old. He did horrible things in the past, and nobody can doubt he would have again if allowed to. I expect that after some years of internecine fighting, Iraq will calm down, and no longer be a destabilizing force in the world. We’ve tried doing nothing, and we’ve tried standing up militarily for Democracy. Which one worked? I don’t know why people keep counseling appeasement and ignoring tyranny, when our history clearly demonstrates the futility of that course. Additionally, the costs are always lower NOW than they will be in the future.