To me god is not a deity. This is the point I was “eluding”. Perhaps I am wrong in using the term god here. If this is so, then so be it. However, I view god as being the entity that established what is going on. I view atheism as asserting that god is not a deity, but god is a system. More specifically, the entity is which governs the universe would be the laws of physics. God, to me, is that which is eternal. This coincides with your “favorite” stoopid belief in yhvh. If you notice in the Bible, yes I’m bringing that illiterate work of literature into it, yhvh is known to say I am. This was understood by the Jews in the bible to be one of the sacred names of their god. This is what I am talking about. God is that which is. God is the thing which relies upon nothing to be sustained, or a self-sufficient entity. If science is the supreme truth, then physics would be the god due to the big bang. Matter may be a god, but matter is still held to the laws. If a deity is god, then this deity must exist external to matter and physics. In fact, this deity must have written the laws of physics. How many times have you heard this? 100? I just want a chance to talk it out with rational intelligent opposing minds.
     

Follow Ups:

• Re: a breakthrough has been made posted by Teuf [195.93.50.187 - spider-loh-tf082.proxy.aol.com] on 13 July 2002 at 19.58.59 ZuluTime (9)
  • Kinda posted by Gremlin [12.255.181.7 - 12-255-181-7.client.attbi.com] on 13 July 2002 at 21.31.50 ZuluTime (8)
    • why do you assume you know what i am saying? nt posted by Andy [65.123.82.26 - ] on 14 July 2002 at 16.35.31 ZuluTime (7)
      • I'm summarising what you've said so far. Otherwise, people could read all the posts, and get the same impression --nt-- posted by Gremlin [12.253.230.83 - 12-253-230-83.client.attbi.com] on 14 July 2002 at 16.46.24 ZuluTime (6)
        • a summary of what I've said? posted by Andy [65.123.82.79 - ] on 14 July 2002 at 18.23.28 ZuluTime (5)
          • Erm... posted by Gremlin [12.253.230.83 - 12-253-230-83.client.attbi.com] on 14 July 2002 at 22.20.13 ZuluTime (0)
          • I question the logic of that last point. posted by Jurassosaurus [63.191.9.46 - sdn-ap-014caburbP0300.dialsprint.net] on 14 July 2002 at 19.30.11 ZuluTime (3)
            • maybe i was a little to brief posted by Andy [65.123.82.6 - ] on 14 July 2002 at 20.28.31 ZuluTime (2)
              • So No means Yes posted by Gremlin [12.253.230.83 - 12-253-230-83.client.attbi.com] on 14 July 2002 at 22.25.42 ZuluTime (1)
                • no means yes in a laughable manner posted by Andy [65.123.82.102 - ] on 15 July 2002 at 00.54.34 ZuluTime (0)
• Good, good... posted by Naron Greenback [12.255.181.7 - 12-255-181-7.client.attbi.com] on 12 July 2002 at 01.48.54 ZuluTime (24)
  • proof for my belief? posted by Andy [65.123.82.98 - ] on 12 July 2002 at 01.55.57 ZuluTime (23)
    • And now, a real breakthrough. posted by Baron Greenback [12.255.181.7 - 12-255-181-7.client.attbi.com] on 12 July 2002 at 02.19.19 ZuluTime (1)
      • I'd like to mention, however... posted by Baron Greenback [12.255.181.7 - 12-255-181-7.client.attbi.com] on 12 July 2002 at 02.25.30 ZuluTime (0)
    • You're right about one thing. posted by Gremlin [12.255.181.7 - 12-255-181-7.client.attbi.com] on 12 July 2002 at 02.07.04 ZuluTime (20)
      • gloats for a moment on being right with one thing posted by Andy [65.123.82.98 - ] on 12 July 2002 at 02.25.08 ZuluTime (19)
        • There's a third option posted by Gremlin [12.255.181.7 - 12-255-181-7.client.attbi.com] on 12 July 2002 at 02.42.35 ZuluTime (16)
          • clarification posted by Andy [65.123.82.14 - ] on 12 July 2002 at 04.26.08 ZuluTime (15)
            • Okay: that makes more sense posted by Gremlin [12.255.181.7 - 12-255-181-7.client.attbi.com] on 12 July 2002 at 10.22.00 ZuluTime (14)
              • You've made a stance posted by Andy [65.123.82.114 - ] on 12 July 2002 at 15.39.59 ZuluTime (13)
                • You're anthropomorphising posted by Gremlin [12.255.181.7 - 12-255-181-7.client.attbi.com] on 12 July 2002 at 19.01.25 ZuluTime (12)
                  • my anthropomorphising posted by Andy [65.123.82.149 - ] on 12 July 2002 at 21.12.03 ZuluTime (7)
                    • minor addition posted by Andy [65.123.82.149 - ] on 12 July 2002 at 21.15.28 ZuluTime (6)
                      • Where's the problem? posted by Gremlin [12.255.181.7 - 12-255-181-7.client.attbi.com] on 13 July 2002 at 01.32.34 ZuluTime (5)
                        • I see no problem posted by Andy [65.123.82.4 - ] on 13 July 2002 at 02.40.32 ZuluTime (4)
                          • Re: I see a problem posted by zigamort [65.33.25.66 - 66.25.33.65.cfl.rr.com] on 24 July 2002 at 20.47.45 ZuluTime (0)
                          • Plausibility posted by Gremlin [12.255.181.7 - 12-255-181-7.client.attbi.com] on 13 July 2002 at 05.31.53 ZuluTime (2)
                            • kudos to you posted by Andy [65.123.82.138 - ] on 13 July 2002 at 07.07.58 ZuluTime (1)
                              • Somewhat posted by Gremlin [12.255.181.7 - 12-255-181-7.client.attbi.com] on 13 July 2002 at 18.59.46 ZuluTime (0)
                  • are you certain? posted by Andy [65.123.82.149 - ] on 12 July 2002 at 20.07.14 ZuluTime (3)
                    • Two major problems posted by Gremlin [12.255.181.7 - 12-255-181-7.client.attbi.com] on 12 July 2002 at 20.34.20 ZuluTime (2)
                      • the major problems posted by Andy [65.123.82.149 - ] on 12 July 2002 at 20.59.00 ZuluTime (1)
                        • The facts of fiction posted by Gremlin [12.255.181.7 - 12-255-181-7.client.attbi.com] on 12 July 2002 at 21.44.03 ZuluTime (0)
        • My two bits... posted by Baron Greenback [12.255.181.7 - 12-255-181-7.client.attbi.com] on 12 July 2002 at 02.37.28 ZuluTime (1)
          • not quite posted by Andy [65.123.82.98 - ] on 12 July 2002 at 02.59.43 ZuluTime (0)